Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her to make her holy, cleansing her by the washing with water through the word, and to present her to himself as a radiant church, without stain or wrinkle or any other blemish, but holy and blameless. (Ephesians 5:25, NIV)
So my question is, what does Paul mean by "just as Christ... gave himself up for [the church]"? Is he talking about when Christ died on the cross? But the church didn't exist at that time... What does Paul mean by Church then?
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Hi David, Good question ie what is the church since the church wasn't in existence when Jesus died on the cross. Makes me think that maybe I'm wrong about the timing and wrong about the naming. That is, maybe the church did exist before the cross...if that is those who have been saved by faith as Abraham was. That also relates to the naming, in fact it seems intertwined to me. hmmm...I guess I always thought that meant the people that Jesus was dying for who had lived present and past (including Abraham ;)) so that He was loving the people whom He wanted to become His church. I don't think that only certain ones are predestined but that God predestines those who believe in Jesus to become His children and the church. So those ones who will believe in Him and what He did for them on the cross to make it possible for them to have a salvation to receive were the ones He loved as the church? Wow...even before there was anyone to be there. Guess it's kind of like preparing yourself to love the woman God will give to you as your wife, determining that you will love her as Christ loves us the church. Amazing.
If so, then that's a whole new way of looking at church history... the Church didn't start with Jesus....
then did it start with Abraham? or with Adam?
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